You know how enthusiasm for the RP has been kinda down as a whole, even with the new storyline and everything. Maybe it's just the season, maybe it's just fatigue, I dunno. I'm losing that loving feeling, myself, sometimes. For example, yesterday, I was going to post as Sonic. I could really hardly bring myself to do it, so I barely did. You've got like, one blue line in there. Then, after that, I had arranged to have John handle the next transition post, but he got busy for a while, and I didn't know when or if he was coming back, and I just wanted things to move forward. It was then that I found myself possibly writing a third NPC post in a row.

Aaand, I said, not happening. The day I NPC triple-post is going to be the day I don't post. Fortunately, Kazz and Sheff were around, and they both volunteered to do it. They seemed rather eager to, actually.

This very small, innocuous thing got me thinking. I think, as a rule of thumb, any RPer is generally eager to do stuff, or they wouldn't be in RP. Sometimes they're eager to just follow a story, sometimes not, but usually, creative writers are always eager to create. Inactivity follows when creativity wanes. But, at the same time, if you let people command a predefined story, it can lose its direction unless closely supervised, or they can worry about messing it up even when there's little chance of doing so.

Excessive supervision and worrying do not belong in RP. Those things are not fun. Worrying about messing things up. Not fun. Having rigid structure, typically not fun. Sentence fragments, bad. Using them anyway.

The point I'm getting to is that RP needs more freedom to be reliably fun for everyone, and to spark that "imagination" that caused most of us to start RPing in the first place, but you can't have absolute freedom in an RP that is based on a series because there's always a risk you'll mess something up in a way that others will find unpalatable. We didn't care about fan-RPing series' into the ground as kids, but now that most of us are older, we'd feel stupid fanonizing the utter crap out of something. So, I'm personally ready to try an original RP with no boundaries.

We've talked in the past about how we'd never be able to recruit for an original RP with no ties to an existing series, but... look at how many fantastic recruits we're getting nowadays for this Sonic RP, anyway. No offense to newer folks (Franky, you're awesome, even though you're technically not new), but we're just not getting that many apps nowadays, and even fewer that are actually remotely acceptable. So, I'm thinking, hey—let's just start something new on the side, not worry about recruiting for it for a while, and see what we can do on our own with a smaller group, anyway.

Here's where the idea starts.

[20:59] Matt: Well, I was just thinking about what Amanda said about it being so difficult to come into a preexisting world, and, y'know, no matter what you do, that will eventually become a problem as you get story arcs under your belt, but...
[21:00] Matt: What if you had an RP that didn't /start/ with a defined world? What if you had an RP that began with the history of the world as a big unknown, with no one even sure of their own past, and built an RP and its world off of pure, cooperative improvisation?
[21:00] Matt: Revolving around that mystery.
[21:00] Diluss: /WHAAAAAT/
[21:01] Kazz: That could be kind of interesting
[21:01] Kazz: I think it might be easy to misstep, but could be interesting.
[21:01] Muffin: Woah
[21:01] Muffin: That could end up being seriously cool
[21:01] Matt: I guess something like that would have to have some ground rules so that Joe Newbo doesn't come in and reveal his character to be the world's god [This comment was made when I still thought we'd still be recruiting at first.]
[21:01] Matt: God-demon
[21:02] Matt: From ten million years ago
[21:02] Matt: But still
[21:02] Kazz: Robot-antichrist
[21:02] Matt: I mean, I think some outrageousness might be welcome, if you think about it. Just bending and flexing with things as they go.
[21:02] Kazz: But yeah, I think that could be kind of neat.
[21:02] Matt: Building a world and its geography just based on what people make up as they get there in RP.
[21:02] Matt: And its technology.
[21:03] Matt: Talk about some sparse starting character profiles, too.
[21:03] Kazz: Heh.
[21:03] Diluss: how do you mean sparse
[21:03] Kazz: Y'know, the more you say the more I think it's interesting at the very least.
[21:04] Matt: Just so many unknowns. No history, no definitive origins or anything.
[21:04] Diluss: hm
[21:04] Matt: Maybe not even ages known.
[21:04] Diluss: ...
[21:04] Diluss: whooooooooa I JUST
[21:04] Diluss: GOT WHAT YOU SAID
[21:04] Diluss: you mean like
[21:04] Diluss: everyone wakes up with no idea of where they came from?
[21:04] Matt: Practically.
[21:05] Diluss: http://zombiedog.spindash.net/stuffnjun ... whaaat.gif

----

[21:15] <Matt> See, here's the one critical thing about the idea, though.
[21:15] <Matt> It really does involve some very old-school methods, like, from the Days of Antiquity.
[21:15] <Diluss> what kind
[21:15] <Kazz> Mm?
[21:16] <Matt> Unless it's scripted (which defeats the point of the spontaneity), it doesn't have much in the way of a guiding hand. Unless people make things up as they go, and unless virtually everybody is creative in some way, the story would just sit there.
[21:16] <Matt> I mean, imagine the first thread right now if no one made anything up, or if everyone relied on one or two people for their information.
[21:16] <Matt> Wake up... somewhere...
[21:16] <Matt> hm
[21:16] <Matt> well, what do I post
[21:16] <Diluss> sit around
[21:16] <Diluss> comment
[21:16] <Kazz> That's what I meant by 'or a catastrophe watiing to happen', yeah
[21:16] <Diluss> sit around more
[21:17] <Matt> That said, the key to giving people the urge to be creative is to give them freedom.
[21:17] <Kazz> For what it's worth, I think at least I'm more reluctant to post when there's an actual point to be working towards because I always feel like I could accidentally run it off into Bolivia
[21:17] <Matt> But the key to allowing that freedom to not result in a million clashes of different ideas is for people to individually share their ideas with each other somewhat, too, rather than everybody trying to write their own story willy-nilly.
[21:18] <Matt> So I think if we had sort of a utopian situation of sharing and spontaneity, it could work
[21:18] <Diluss> how might
[21:18] <Diluss> that work out
[21:18] <Matt> Probably easier than it sounds!
[21:18] <Matt> I just sort of imagine those times when I come to you and I'm like, "Oh, what if [x] happens"
[21:18] <Diluss> said matt, chirpy and optimistic in the face of reason and all history
[21:19] <Kazz> Keep everyone in line with threats of violence?
[21:19] <Matt> And you're like, "heck yeah, and what if this too"
[21:19] <Matt> And then we have cooperatively come up with something
[21:19] <Matt> And help each other make it happen
[21:19] <Diluss> do we all just talk to you
[21:19] <Diluss> or to other people
[21:19] <Matt> No, please no
[21:19] <Matt> other people
[21:19] <Diluss> hahah ok
[21:19] <Matt> gosh
[21:19] <Matt> no
[21:19] <Matt> leave me alone
[21:19] <Matt> (I kid)
[21:19] <Kazz> With dreams and rainbows.
[21:19] <Matt> (but really, other people)
[21:21] <Matt> I guess the most important thing to the success of something like this, in my opinion, would be that there is no wrong move, and that everything can be adapted, since it is a blank slate.
[21:21] <Diluss> like a giant game of Let's Pretend
[21:21] <Matt> That really does get back to the heart of RP, huh.
[21:21] <Kazz> I just wonder how well it would work if it actually attracted people.
[21:21] <Matt> I think it'd probably work best with just us at first.
[21:21] <Diluss> oh gosh
[21:21] <Matt> Not... even trying to recruit anyone.
[21:21] <Diluss> do you know
[21:21] <Diluss> what would be the best
[21:21] <Diluss> a map
[21:21] <Sheff> We'd have a much wider audience.
[21:21] <Diluss> that is just a huge
[21:21] <Diluss> black
[21:21] <Kazz> Because we at least vaguely know how eachother work, yeah.
[21:21] <Diluss> screen
[21:21] <Diluss> with a tiny starting point
[21:22] <Diluss> and every once in a while it gets updated
[21:22] <Diluss> like the Fog of War in age of empires
[21:22] <Matt> That's actually pretty cool.
[21:22] <Kazz> Slowly expanded upon, like games that only fill in the map once you've been there
[21:22] <Diluss> yes!
[21:22] <Matt> That would be the knees of the largest and most angry bees
[21:22] <Greens> cheats: blacksheepwall
[21:22] <Diluss> like
[21:22] <Kazz> (all I can think of are the dungeon-floor maps in the vast amounts of Mystery Dungeon games, but yeah, same idea)
[21:22] <Diluss> like the most fuzzy, ornery bees
[21:23] <Diluss> all bristling and buzzing
[21:23] <Diluss> threatening to sting the crap out of you




So, in summary, the tenants of the concept that we have to start with, that I want to gauge your collective feelings about:

1. Everyone creates the story as they go. It is old-school RP. The story may get contrived and confusing, even, but everyone contributes, and hopefully everyone has fun.
2. We still try to work with each other to counteract the bad stuff. Collaboration is key to avoiding the contrivance and confusion, but independence is important for freedom and spontaneity. A healthy mix of both working together and doing our own thing unpredictably, I think.
3. The world is an unknown. No one really knows what's over that next hill. As John was suggesting, if there was a map, it'd be like in a video game, where anywhere you haven't walked yet is blacked out. These areas will be made up as we RP, by the RPers, and its structure may be crazy.
4. The characters have no recollection of their histories at the beginning. They may know their names, and they will definitely have personalities, skills, likes, dislikes, etc., but they won't really know why. We discover and make it up as we go.
5. This means no character profiles necessary at first. Sure, make a picture. Make up a name and some rudimentary stuff if you want to. But, I think that for a story like this to succeed, it is important for characters to be able to appear without premeditation, as they are needed. Situation calls for a new character? Throw one in.



Those five things are what I believe are very important to this concept working. It's not complicated, really. It's just the utter definition of freeform. There are still some side concerns, things that we discussed lengthily last night (such as what the general theme and tone of the RP would be, level of fantasy, races and species of characters, level of technology, and a million other cans of worms), but those are things I think we can worry about later. I know the theme/tone/styling of it will probably be the clincher for some people, but right now, I'm just wanting to see what everyone thinks about this formless concept.

Thoughts?

Okay. Okay I got something. Something that will blow your minds.

Maybe its like, a force grabbed different beings from different worlds and dropped them there for giggles. Pretty much I'm just thinking just have them all be different things maybe. Not center it to one species per say.

I say this only because it'll just be us to start with and none of us will create a flaming eye of nigh-godlike power. Though, if we can pick that I claim it.

But, that could really liven things up and keep it more interesting. Cause more confusion for characters since hey, none of them might even look much alike. Make their heads implode with confusion. Yeah.

Also, doing soemthing like that would keep it from being too same. Each character can be special with special mind-melting powers. Maybe tech or ~*~magic~*~.

Also man, if it ever gets settled and we want fresh blood it might be easier. Or well, it won't attract bad sonicfans and such. I know like...three people that might enjoy it. But, that's silly to invite them now and such. Oh gosh, I'm rambling.

I'm definitely for this, and not just because I'm a closet steampunk fan, but if nothing else, for the novelty, the change of scenery, and the unique style we're looking at. I do have one reservation, though, and that is, I don't think we should definitively say anything pertaining to the origin, in-character or out. The feel I get for this whole big sandbox concept is that the less we establish prior to beginning, the better this will be, since it's all about freeform creativity. I think there's a lot of potential for interesting folklore in-character, but I think a lot of the appeal of this will be figuring it out as we go.

I also have to say that while I'm a fan of magic usage, and fantasy elements, I feel like it'll have to be handled carefully to make it mesh and not feel out of place with this rustic, sort of old-world victorian-era technology kind of climate. I could just be projecting my personal tastes onto my reading comprehension, but either way. I'm in.

I am all up ins for this, even if I'm not quite ready to abandon ship on Sonic, as stated last night. Just about my only concern is the risk of it turning into a ginormous Fantasy Kitchen Sink, or end up with numerous people trying to pull the story in different directions. I'm less worried about it with just this group, but. People with ideas are scary things!

(My vote for thematic-ness still runs along the lines of 'bastard child of EarthBound/Mother and earlier Final Fantasy games', but.)

Anyway, point is. I'm all kinds of on-board.

Yeah! I was brainstorming in the shower, and I think I figured out my character! Or at least his basis. It's gonna be great.

I have a couple ideas for different characters which I can slot in depending on whaaaaaaaaat the first few posts look like and how I feel at the time. Will you get the original intended character or a situationally appropriate stand-in? You may never know.

I would Facebook-style "like" this topic if I could, but alas. And I would maybe try to get in on it if I weren't working practically every day from like 3pm to 11pm, but alas. Regardless, I hope it works out well.

So we decided to discuss parameters. By parameters, we mean limits, really—

Tone
Somewhere in a zone lying between the fantasy and whimsy of Studio Ghibli, the cyberpunk technology and gloom of Final Fantasy VII, the oddity and zaniness of the Mother series, the soft science of steampunk, and the magic of an old JRPG.

Tech
Simple, old-fashioned, manual; charming gears, bolts, and boilers in some steampunk places, and the rust, smokey engines, and flicker of old, esoteric computers in some cyberpunk places. Steampunky and cyberpunky, but not absurdly so. (Not these guys.) Insert locales that are also rural, low-tech, or no-tech here and there. Nothing Apple-sleek or overly modern anywhere; no iPods, cell phones, or internet. Jukeboxes, walkie-talkies, and robots? Sure.

Supernatural powers and energies
Discussion of this has mostly been wheel-spinning. There has been talk of having all "magic" come from a single source, and make it uniform in some way, while there has also been talk of allowing almost any kind of supernatural force as long as it's kept reasonable. I lean toward the latter side, as I personally believe it keeps in line with the freedom of this RP.

Visual Style
I think we all want to be open with this, especially as it pertains to having things that are original and even "out there," but at the same time, it would be good to have some... "range" to work in. That is to say, it's not going to look right to have a Sonic-styled hedgehog standing between Kyle Hyde and a bulging, hyperdetailed, super-ultra-muscular, insane-three-foot-spiky-anime-hairdo super-saiya-jin-looking guy. All of those should probably be outside our acceptable range.

As for examples of what would be acceptable?

John linked this piece as a very good picture illustrating a classic JRPG-ish "cute" end of the spectrum (with a nice mish-mash of character types, including human, animal, non-human, dragon, etc.) Here's another example from that same artist.

Now, as for the harder, more gritty end of the spectrum... we haven't yet come to a consensus. Maybe something FFVII-ish? Suggestions welcome.

Thoughts?

TCH>....,,,

since, NOONE can figure out
WHAT the righf LEVEL of grit is,

why dont we we creat.........


...,.,,

,.,,
.,


.


a STYLE CHART??? (diagran)


basically the plan being that we have a diagram in the shape of.... an DIAMNOD, with two axes—two extremes if you will. the extreme of cuteness vs. the extreme of grit, and the extreme of abstractness vs. the extreme of realism. I have recommended the extreme of abstractness because I don’t think cute vs. grit really pins down the problem of including a sonic-style character. Shadow the hedgehog is not cute, BUT he is very abstract, with all his weird shapes and harsh angles. ghibli-esque anime heroines are much more cute than shadow, but much less abstract (more real, in their way) and the same applies with western animation.

People can contribute pictures along with where on the DIAMNOD they think the picture fits, and then when we have an assortment of graded pictures, we can just draw a circle around the values of picture we like and exclude everything else.

I would like to hear what you think but in the meantime I will work on starting a diagram to that effect with some starting pictures.

Nothin' to see here. Move along. Let the man enjoy his diagrams.

No, but really, we can do that if you wanna, I guess, but it almost feels like too much effort. I think... given the small group we're starting with, we can understand it without that. But if we start recruiting, it will be necessary, being an original RP with no real outside references.

AUGAIN with the old memees what IS it with you and OLD mie

its like you most be TOKING up on a JOINT to make you STONED or something

What is it with you and bite me.

Well then, since we don’t need..... the DIAGRAN I guess all we need are characters and a starting scenario. I.e. do we start this right after having woken up, do we start it a few weeks or a few months after, etc. Where do we put them and what will they be doing when the RP starts. I am all for a cold-boot, LOST-style, but anything works for me, really.

[19:56] Matt: I'm thinking that in lieu of character profiles we should decide on an utterly vague setting ("a harbor town" or "a crossing" or some other populated-but-customizable location) and then each write a sort of prologue post for our characters, saying how they came to arrive there, or what they were doing immediately after "awakening" without their memories.
[19:57] Matt: And in a way, that will help us with our start.
[19:57] Matt: So that the start isn't so... cold.
[19:57] Matt: And difficult.
[19:58] Matt: It will kind of /be/ our start.
[19:58] Diluss: interesting
[19:58] Diluss: so like we have a
[19:58] Diluss: thread where we JUST post prologue posts
[19:58] Matt: Sho'. Or we could even make the prologue thread, make those posts [one for each of us], then continue after the last one is posted.
[19:58] Diluss: hhmn
[19:59] Diluss: that works!
[19:59] Matt: Or that kind of "prologue post" could be the way of entering a new character into the fold.
[19:59] Diluss you mean for later arrivals?
[19:59] Matt Yeah.
[19:59] Diluss right on




We're getting to the point where it's practical to talk about actually starting this. That said, I will suggest a few common things:

1. No one remembers who they are or how they got to where they are.

2. Many may have some form of identification or some sort of possession that will help them at least know their name, or something else.

3. Personalities can be intact. Skills and expertise can be intact. It'd be bizarre if suddenly everyone became gibbering idiots who forgot how to speak their own language and didn't know what a wheel was. People should at least mostly remain whole individuals with full social functions, but a loss of identity and memory of events. Of course, feel free to play with this as you like, and forget more if you want to. Just saying we shouldn't have to.

4. If you guys are okay with it, when we actually start making our characters interact with one another, it will be a day or two (or three) following the blank-slate wake-up moment. Your prologue may include the wake-up moment if you want, and cover anything in the time leading up to present that you like. Use it as a moment to introduce your character in a short solo bit that reveals his or her nature, plight, etc.

5. For the time being, there is little to no organization, government, communication, or anything else in the world. Maybe some common people who just don't have anything better to do (or need to do so for survival) are resuming their jobs if they can figure out where they work. Maybe some inherently greedy people are trying to take advantage of the situation. Who knows. But the point is that, for the time being, it seems like no one is actually in the know about what happened just yet. This way, our characters have some impetus for adventure. Find the truth.


I might try my hand at writing some kind of prologue for my character later. Debating whether or not I want to tackle it as a traditional post, or write it as more of a first-person thing (just for this one post)...

Any other thoughts? It might be a good idea for us to try to actually do a sort of get-together night just to help things launch. Dunno how practical it is, though.