Sonic Spindash Role-Playing
http://sonic.spindash.net/forums/

Weakness
http://sonic.spindash.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  psikeout [ Wed May 12, 2010 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Weakness
Historically, I would've chosen option 3. I have always thought that a "weaknesses" section was something arbitrary and typically ill-thought-out that would only serve to be exploited by other players if it did contain any useful information. However, the more I think about it now, reading through my own profile, the more I've started to wish for a specific section where I could show some of my own characters' flaws—Y'know, without being the only oddball out doing it.

Take Rock for example. His profile shows him as being... way less flawed (from a combat angle) than I ever intended. Yeah, he's supposed to be tough and well-balanced, and it represents that, but it fails to succinctly state the areas where he falls short (both in character and abilities), and the important skills he just plain lacks.

Thoughts?


Also, if you vote "Maybe" and don't post anything, I will crack open the poll results table in the database and find out who you are and bother you. Help me out, here.
Author:  Greens [ Wed May 12, 2010 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
Iiiii dunnnoooo... A forced 'weakness' section might be more appropriate for characters who are otherwise completely invincible. Our entire cast might be as tough or skilled as Batman, for an incredibly nerdy analogy, but ultimately, they could be stopped with enough firepower/numbers against them/cleverly though trap/what have you. Besides which, Rock is the RP's Mario, isn't he? Jack of all trades, master of none? It's his mind that makes him a threat.

I'm just saying, pulling a weakness out of our collective asses now might seem... impetuous. Like Ace is suddenly weak against water based attacks. I mean, I wouldn't hold it against anyone if a character was designed with a weakness in mind, like Superman and his kryptonite, (another nerdy analogy) like Rock sounds like he was. But whipping out something for everyone? I'd need more convincing.
Author:  psikeout [ Wed May 12, 2010 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
A good point. I guess I should make clear that I didn't mean making up weaknesses on the spot. I meant just using it to highlight what your character already lacks or fails in. For example, just what you mentioned was pretty much precisely what was on my mind—The fact that there's almost always going to be somebody around who's better than Rock in any given field because he lacks specialization. It's something you could read out of the profile by looking between the lines, so to speak, but it wouldn't necessarily jump out at a skimmer too easily. Besides that, I'd also mention that he's usually easily angered and impulsive.

For Sonic, it'd be a reiteration of the fact that he can't swim, and for Knuckles, a reiteration that he's kind of gullible and not so good at thinking things through. And, say, for Towers, it'd be more of a reiteration that he is inflexible, and has a hard time getting around because of it. If I had to pick something for Ace, for example, I'd say that he's very street smart, but kind of uneducated, and lacks any useful technical skills. (See, nothing in his profile says he's uneducated, but if you scour it for details, you notice that he has no apparent academic or technical skills whatsoever, and that everything revolves around fighting and street survival.)

I think it'd also be a nice warning that there's something amiss with a character if its creator couldn't think of anything to add to such a section. But, at the same time, I do fear it'd cause people to make up silly crap like you mentioned.

So, good point, still.
Author:  Mie [ Wed May 12, 2010 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
... I read the first post, and I was like, "Yeah, that seems like a good idea, option one it is!"

Then I read Greens' response, and I was all, "Oh, yeah, that's a really good point, he sure is right about that."

Then I read Matt's response, and I thought, "Hmm, that's very true as well."

In summary, I'm totally malleable, and will gel with it either way, but my thoughts are as follows:

Go ahead and implement it. Not everyone has to do it, but I think it may be a useful addition to the profiles, and we can have our player moderators keep tabs on whether or not the information is being abused. Of course, it'd also be prudent to update the rules with a "Hey, using these weaknesses without justification is a big no-no."
Author:  Greens [ Wed May 12, 2010 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
...Yeah, I'm down with that.
Author:  Diluss [ Wed May 12, 2010 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
I dunno, I think that writing down the weaknesses might add some... odd dynamics to character relations. I'm not entirely sure how, but I can't help but feel it might stilt things a little if its all quantized out in the open for everyone to see.
Author:  psikeout [ Wed May 12, 2010 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
Tails wrote:
I'm not entirely sure how, but I can't help but feel it might stilt things a little if its all quantized out in the open for everyone to see.


That echoes my remaining fear. See, that's kind of where I'm conflicted. We're doing that with all their strengths—Quantifying them like that, I mean. It feels like without the other side of the coin, we're "selling" the character rather than presenting it objectively, in some cases.

But at the same time, I'd never want anyone to have to "cook up" a weakness, regarding characters that are just... totally moderate. I don't know. But you know me—I like to create issues to figure out where there otherwise are none.
Author:  Diluss [ Wed May 12, 2010 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
Maybe it'd be wise to keep some of this character profile information out of the eyes of anyone except the moderators. Or--I dunno. Maybe there could be a public access RP profile that provides all the RPer needs to know, and then a more detailed section is for the people who decide whether the character gets in or not--although saying this I have the horrible suspicion that this board is subject to the democratic process when it comes to things like that.

It might be nice to kind of keep things about the character hidden. I mean, is it just me or did not knowing what the fish was totally flip people when they finally found out it was in fact a giant submersible island-eating robot demon fish?
Author:  psikeout [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
Yeah. And I'm all for that, as I've said before. I don't like character profiles that spill all the beans, which is why we even have a rule in place now to allow characters to have hidden abilities and such. (Not saying that any characters are or are not presently taking advantage of said rule, but it's there.) But "strengths and weaknesses" has been standard fare for RP characters since my first experiences with the hobby in the 90s, and I'd say this is the only RP group on planet Earth where that template would meet with resistance.

Not that that's a bad thing, though.
Author:  Diluss [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
Maybe it's just because we're so intellectual and avant-garde

psikeout wrote:
(Not saying that any characters are or are not presently taking advantage of said rule, but it's there.)


And just what are you implying, eh?
Author:  psikeout [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
There is zero implication, sir. (... no really, there is no implication, seriously, but it's funny to act like there is.)
Author:  David [ Thu May 13, 2010 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
It seems like you guys have pretty thoroughly drawn up the details here, but I'll go ahead and spit out my opinion anyway.

For the most part, the chink in the armor of a weakness section appears to be the same as any other section on a character's profile: balance. You don't want someone making up a weakness for the sake of having a weakness, just like you don't want someone to randomly pull some power out of thin air for the sake of making their character strong. Ideally, a weakness for a character should come as a result of developing them, and knowing their personality. For example, because I decided to make Toby an overly friendly, eager to help kind of guy, it follows that he would be easily taken advantage of. I never set out and said, "Hey, I think I'd like my character to be gullible." And If I want Toby to be a risk-taker, then I have to know that not all of the risks he takes are going to end successfully, thus the word "risk." In the end, getting to know the character you've created helps you to get to know their weaknesses.

Think about the friends you know in real life. Can you honestly point out the "kryptonite" of each one of them? Or is it more likely you'd think something like, "Oh he/she's really good at ________, but he/she sure has a bit of a problem with ______." I mean, obviously, some people have big, glaring weaknesses, but it's not everybody. In fact, most of the time you don't even see weaknesses until you start to get to know a person. In my opinion, it's the same with your own character. Working to know and develop them helps to create natural weaknesses that feel like that weren't just randomly slapped on.

As far as privacy goes, i like the idea of weaknesses being hidden from the general public. There's room to state little, balancing details about a character's flaws in the profile, but a weakness list could be invisible, allowing characters to interact with each other and discover them themselves.

Aaaaanyway, that's my ill thought-out two bits.
Author:  Mie [ Thu May 13, 2010 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
Man, that David has a really good point. I vote for his option.

Seriously, though, in light of all the discussion, I feel like if people need a skimmer's bio for each character, they shouldn't be roleplaying. It's one thing to read between the lines of the profiles, and draw logical conclusions (which can be confirmed with the player, if there's any question), which I think, is part of all this fictional interaction, but if you're wanting to just be able to take a quick glance, and know what type of Pokémon to send into battle so your character can come out wittier, righter (holy crap, that's a real word?), or victorious, you're probably more suited to RPs with dice and word counts.

So, yes, go ahead and be blunt, implicit, or anything in-between in the meat of the info, but let it be there, if it's going to be anywhere.
Author:  psikeout [ Thu May 13, 2010 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
David wrote:
Think about the friends you know in real life. Can you honestly point out the "kryptonite" of each one of them? Or is it more likely you'd think something like, "Oh he/she's really good at ________, but he/she sure has a bit of a problem with ______." I mean, obviously, some people have big, glaring weaknesses, but it's not everybody. In fact, most of the time you don't even see weaknesses until you start to get to know a person. In my opinion, it's the same with your own character. Working to know and develop them helps to create natural weaknesses that feel like that weren't just randomly slapped on.


Hate to home in one part like this, but I feel it affects the entire post, and might show a little bit of "missing the point." I can easily do this with people I know.

- Mie is so short-statured and lightweight that her hardest blow can't budge me.
- My father has a large, vulnerable belly, and even the slightest bump to it makes him grunt and keel over.
- Someone else I know is very clumsy and easily hurts herself because she's uncoordinated.
- My biggest weakness is that I tire out really easily while running because I've got bad feet.

See, we are talking about mostly physical things. Mental things may come into play (such as Ace having no technical skill, or Rock being dangerously short-tempered), but no matter what, it's all going to relate to combat. Our characters do not compete in sports with each other, in 99 out of 100 cases; virtually everything not related to personality in a character profile is data related to performance in a fight.

That being said, I feel a lot of weaknesses are already well covered by our star rating system, since we require folks to mention the things that cause "deductions" or what have you. So, perhaps it isn't necessary in the majority of cases. Maybe that system just needs to be slightly expanded to account for more non-mental "weaknesses."




Edit: One other thing I should make clear, especially re: what Mie said above. The purpose of character profiles, in my opinion, is not to be literary or to even be a part of the RP experience. No one is obligated to read a character profile ever. There is no "you shouldn't be RPing if you don't read all the profiles" in my book. The profiles are purely there for the following two reasons, and always have been, in my opinion:

1. To satisfy curiosity about a character for anyone who wants to read them
2. To enforce combat rules and make sure that players of characters cannot get away with ass-pull powers, strengths, and abilities.

In short, I'm one of those skimmers. I don't peruse character profiles unless I'm bored and curious (not often), or making sure there aren't ass-pulls happening.
Author:  Mie [ Thu May 13, 2010 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Weakness
I certainly never meant to imply that you shouldn't be RPing, I just thought that the profiles were part of the experience. I withdraw my comments, though.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/